Posts Tagged ‘Episcopal’

CT on the Money…Get Religion? Get Africans.

Posted October 9, 2007 by Charles
0

A couple of really good articles from Christianity Today about religious spectacle: Amusing Ourselves on Sunday, Listening for the Whisper

And one from GetReligion:  Listening to the African Anglicans.

Category: Asides

Anglican Update

Posted September 29, 2007 by Charles
0

Greg Peters over at The Scriptorium has a good analysis of the ECUSA House of Bishops Statement. This line is a home run: “Of course, we are going to veil all of this under the guise of ‘pastoral care,’ but we’re going to do it anyway.”

GetReligion also has some thoughts. Apparently, “The New York Times gets it.”

Category: Asides

Raindrops Keep Fallin on My Head…

Posted June 3, 2007 by Charles
0

So, I finally find God’s leading with a problem that’s been nagging on me for some time, and it presents a new one. Pluck a hair and two new ones show up.

In light of the new revelations about the theology of my church and its denomination, I found, through some torturous fasting, that God is leading me away from the post I currently hold. I don’t know where He wants me to go quite yet, but I know where I’d like to go, if I get to make that choice. ff you’re wondering how I wound up where I am, here’s my story:

A couple of years ago I felt God leading me to expand my theological horizons beyond the Churches of Christ, where I found Jesus, or – more accurately – where he found me, 9 years ago. I felt it was good, but that it wasn’t the only, as some did.

So, after I got married, my wife and I went to Pentecostal, Baptist, and Episcopal churches, and when this opportunity fell into my lap, I jumped at it. It was a blessing, and I’ve learned a lot about God, myself, and the church during my time. But it seems that my season there is over. Read more

Category: Whatever

What’s more important…

Posted January 30, 2007 by Charles
1

making a commitment, or keeping it? Elizabeth Keaton at Telling Secrets thinks it’s the former.

“Membership is VERY different from attendance, Kendall.

Or, perhaps, for your purposes, it isn’t.

This would certainly help explain the fact that when splinter groups like AAC or CANA or AMiA or, for that matter, Mr. Akinola or Mr. Kolini talk about the millions of MEMBERS in their various churches, they are “apparently” talking about ATTENDANCE.

That distinction makes things a great deal more apparent – which is that there is a great deal of difference between the long term commitment of baptism (MEMBERSHIP) and the religious fervor of an evangelical service (ATTENDANCE).

I would agree with her distinction between “membership” and “attendance” if there were more attendees than members. If that were the case, then logically the members are those attendees that are committed enough to officially associate themselves. It could be generalized as “all members are attendees, but not all attendees are members.”

But, according to the numbers, the opposite is true. There are nearly three times as many members as attendees (787,000 attendees of 2.3 million members). What that tells me is that, logically, the attendees are the members who are committed enough to show up. It could be generalized as “all attendees are members, but not all members are attendees.”

Of course there will always be exceptions: nonmembers who attend, members who stay home, etc. But what is the over arching trend? At my ELCA church (in full communion with the ECUSA) we have just shy of 1000 members. But our average Sunday attendance hovers around 425. Out of that 425 we have 6-10 one time visitors, and 5-7 families that regularly attend, but aren’t members. That means there are only about 385 members in regular attendance out of 1000.

Her description is lacking, because, according to those statistics, nearly two thirds of those who have made the “long term commitment” she mentioned aren’t showing up. Her phrase “the religious fervor of an evangelical service” implies that showing up regularly is no indicator of your commitment, while showing up on one special day is.

Would that fly with a marriage? “Honey, I may not come home every night, but you know I love you…I did marry you.”

Elizabeth thinks my logic is “deeply, deeply flawed.” My comment was worded slightly different, but with the same meaning as this post. She says:

It is based on assumption – “the truth is the opposite,” and not substantiated fact “nearly three times as many members as attendees” – which is never the basis for a logical arument

I posted a response, which she chose to delete in moderation. It’s probably because her attack on my logic was unfounded. The “assumption” she refers to is no assumption at all, but a deduction based on what she calls the “not substantiated fact”. My math says that 787,000 is 34% of 2.3 million…so she’s right, I miscalculated…it’s just barely less than three times as many. So, the truth of the situation is the opposite of my original statement about attendance being higher than membership.

Some churches have higher membership than attendance. Some have higher attendance than membership. The number that’s most important is the smaller one. That’s because the better judge of the life of a church than membership or attendance is the number of members who participate in the continuing life of the church and are moved by the Gospel.

Related: Episcopal Church loses 42,000 in 2005; The Episcopal Majority Trumpets “vitality”

Category: Church

This, from Bp. Mark Hanson

Posted January 20, 2007 by Charles
10

A couple of months back, after Bp. Schori’s original NYT Magazine and NPR interviews, I sent an email to ELCA Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson. For those of you who don’t know, the ELCA and the ECUSA have a relationship of “full communion”. This is a pretty significant linking, though it’s not really a merger. As an ELCA minister I was fairly disturbed by some of the comments she made, especially those saying that Jesus is not the only way to heaven. Bp. Hanson got back to me about a month ago, but my anti-spam got it, and I just noticed it yesterday.

Basically, I asked him what his reaction was, how it might affect the communion, and whether the ELCA would follow suit. This is what he said:

I received your email of November 28 in which you expressed concerns about a statement made by Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori.

Bishop Schori’s remarks about those who are saved represent a specific theological school of thought that became increasingly popular at the Second Vatican Council and beyond. While it does not deny that Christ is God’s revealed means of salvation, it opens the door for the possibility that God has the capability of saving fallen humanity through a variety of means. Such a position would be in accordance with the biblical principle that God desires the salvation of every human being. We are certain that God accomplishes such salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. We are not certain that God also will act in other ways to proffer salvation. Only God knows how God will act to redeem the world.

In order to place the best construction on Presiding Bishop Schori’s intention, I think we can affirm that it is not up to us, fallen creatures that we are, to determine for God the full range of how God may act towards us. That is how I read her remark that we should not attempt to put God in a box. And while I might not choose to express myself in the same way as Presiding Bishop Schori has done, I believe we can affirm both that Jesus Christ is God’s uniquely revealed means of the world’s salvation and that God has the freedom to act in order to bring all people under God’s kingdom.

The Confession of Faith of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, in constitutional provision 2.02., declares:

This church confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and the Gospel as the power of God for the salvation of all who believe.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God incarnate, through whom everything was made and through whose life, death, and resurrection God fashions a new creation.

The proclamation of God’s message to us as both Law and Gospel is the Word of God, revealing judgment and mercy through word and deed, beginning with the Word in creation, continuing in the history of Israel, and centering in all its fullness in the person and work of Jesus Christ.

Thank you for sharing your concerns with me. As we celebrate the birth of our Savior among us, may you be filled with peace, joy, and hope.

Living in God’s amazing grace,

Mark S. Hanson
Presiding Bishop

Well, Hanson just ticked up a couple of notches on my respect-o-meter. Typically i see a response that is worded so carefully as a load of B.S., but he makes a couple of strong points. Yes, God has only revealed himself to us in Jesus, and we know that salvation is found in Him. But Jesus told us that the Father desires the salvation of ever person. And we know he has the power to do anything he wants. So the possibility is open that there are other paths.

But the logical conclusion of this position is that we need to spread the Gospel as far and fast as we can and leave the rest to God. If He decides to save people through other means then that’s his prerogative…but we can’t count on it. We have to act as though there are no other options, because we can’t be sure. Similarly, as a 25 year-old I know that Social Security and Medicare might be there when I’m 67, but I better not count on it for my survival during retirement.

Bp. Schori was not saying this. It’s clear that she’s saying that we shouldn’t act as though Jesus is the only way. I find this difficult to do, because Jesus, the Prophets, and the Apostles were very clear that the nations would be saved through the cross. The nations…Gentiles…Goyim, with all their myriad religious traditions, would be saved through faith in Jesus of Nazareth. This is in stark opposition to her assertion that “people of other faith traditions approach God through their… own cultural contexts.” As a church leader she has a responsibility to be faithful to the Scriptures and lead people toward Christ, not make it easier for them to ignore him.

I hope that God chooses to save those who are pure in heart and spirit, but did not find Christ in life. Especially those who were hurt by bigoted, self-righteous, misguided Christians, and couldn’t bring themselves to return to the church that scarred them so badly. But if there were another way, why would Jesus have to die the way He did?

BTW, if your wondering about the random bold words, I decided to emphasize every time I referred to God using a third person masculine pronoun, because Bp. Hanson refused to do so. I understand that there’s a philosophical reason to avoid it, but Jesus called God “the Father” and that’s reason enough for me. Besides it’s stinkin’ hard to read a sentence like, “Only God knows how God will act to redeem the world,” or “I believe we can affirm both that Jesus Christ is God’s uniquely revealed means of the world’s salvation and that God has the freedom to act in order to bring all people under God’s kingdom.” Don’t they teach you not to do that in 7th grade, or something?

Already Making Waves (Revisited), Already Making Waves, A Spoiled Kid In A Weird Hat, More From the Schore, Schori’s Glory

Category: Church, Theology

Power of Suggestion is proudly powered by WordPress.org and whiteboard

© Charles Jones 2006-2009 // pos51.org